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Dispute Record: 100616 |
Dyno
Database Entries Affected:
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Received: 2013-09-06, 00:52:00 |
Disputed By: Mike "Benvo" Benveniste |
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Responsed: 2013-09-12 |
Dyno
Database Response |
| Dispute
Text |
Hi
Robert,
I wanted to clarify a discrepancy I came across in your dyno database.
Please reference the link below.
http://www.s65dynos.com/showDyno.php?recID=616&vType=1&dynoID=2
I don't believe this is a dyno of anyone with our software, and believe
this to be misleading especially since it was posted by a competitor of
ours. If one of our customers lost that horsepower on the dyno, I would
certainly know about it. Based on the date of entry, the person who
entered it, the facility that the test was performed at. and the lack of
dyno files or thread on the conditions surrounding this test, I can only
determine that it was placed there with mal intent. Please remove it
from your database or try to provide uniquely identifiable information
that could help determine the accurateness of this entry.
I appreciate your attention regarding this matter.
Thank you,
Mike Benvo
CC: Tech, Cheryl |
| Dyno
Database Response |
This
issue was discussed and addressed on m5board.com within a few days of
receipt. The exact date of this exchange is unknown, but based on
private messages received by Mr. Benveniste, the actual date appears to
be on or before September 12th, 2013. Mr. Benveniste was informed
in that response that this dyno occurred at a
public dyno day, in front of dozens of people -- all who witness the
owner and his car. The modifications list came from the owner, who
claimed BPM Stage-1 software. Mr.
Benveniste was directed to two public threads on m3post.com that
contained details of the public dyno day, and where conditions were
discussed in an open discussion. Mr. Benveniste provided no
evidence that the facility manipulated the results, nor can I find any
record of such foul play ever occurring at this facility. Mr.
Benveniste has repeatedly used this dyno facility himself and has often
used his results of this facility for his own product promotions.
Mr. Benveniste did not provide any
evidence that such mal-intent ever occurred, nor any evidence of wrong
results; he only provided an accusation without any proof. The
shop where the dyno occurred is EAS, which does not offer any ECU tuning
services, nor does Mr. Benveniste own or offer any dyno services.
Therefore neither company offers any relevant overlapping services and
can't be considered competitors of each other that give one company a
motive to falsify the results in front of dozens of people all gathered
around. Furthermore, Mr. Benveniste has repeatedly used this dyno
facility and used their results to promote his products; he obviously
trusts them enough to use their services to promote his products.
His newfound claims of EAS being dishonest and untrustworthy not only
contradict his own previous actions, but seem like they are only made to
help him paint a false narrative that he's a victim of foul play.
It is the opinion of the Dyno Database
administrator that the
provenance of this entry is beyond reproach. The Dyno Database
also finds no proof to any of the allegation listed above, and no error
in the Dyno Database presenting the results.
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Received: 2014-06-17, 17:42:00 |
Disputed By: Mike "Benvo" Benveniste |
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Responsed: 2014-06-24, 22:30:00 |
Dyno
Database Response |
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Dispute
Text |
Mr. Collins,
...[Excerpts unrelated to Dyno Database removed]...
Furthermore, come (sic) of the entries in your dyno
database related to our customer cars are not correct. We've brought
this to your attention in the past and you have showed no
willingness to enter the correct data, yet you continue to try to
externally link others to this incorrect information.
...[Excerpts unrelated to Dyno Database removed]...
Thank you.
CC: Jason Forum Administrator |
| Dyno
Database Response |
Before receipt
of this message, the only prior allegation he sought to address
and change in the Dyno Database was Dyno Dabase
ID00616 on
September 6th, 2013. That item was immediately
addressed and responded to Mr. Benveniste in a public forum on September
12th, 2013 at m5board.com.
At the time this message was sent, the Dyno Database administrator had received no other
allegations or investigation requests of factually incorrect entries
from Mr. Benveniste or any agents of his company or any of his
customers. This
appears to be one of Mr. Benveniste's attempts to create a false
narrative that only he can explain the motivation. Mr. Benveniste
also used this correspondence to file a formal complaint with the forum
administrator with an apparent purpose of having any references to his
product lackluster performance removed from the public record. The forum
administrator is an uninvolved third party and has no frame of reference
for any of Mr. Benveniste's allegations and no way to fact check his
story. The forum administrator
did not know that Mr. Benveniste's complaint was misleading and
factually incorrect (he lied).
The day following this message, Mr. Benveniste
sent a six-point message to the Dyno Database administrator
alleging factual errors in the Dyno Database. This letter came a day after the allegations above
stating that he had already sent these complaints (or something like these) before,
and he alleged these fictitious complains were ignored by the Dyno Database administrator.
It is the belief of the Dyno Database
administrator, that
Mr. Benveniste brought this allegation up to an uninvolved third party
for the purpose to mislead, request punitive action, and have factually
accurate, scientifically accurate, but unflattering tests of his
products removed from the public record. It is further believed
that Mr. Benveniste did not submit a multi-faceted complaint prior to
making these comments, but did send one a day later in an attempt to
write his own narrative and provide a false cover story. The
dates and timestamps of Mr. Benveniste's correspondence very clearly tell a different
story than the one he writes. |
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Received: 2014-06-18, 01:18:00 |
Disputed By: Mike "Benvo" Benveniste |
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Responsed: 2014-06-25, 20:30:00 |
Dyno
Database Response |
| Dispute
Text |
3. http://www.s65dynos.com/showDyno.php?recID=616&vType=1&dynoID=2
-You specified that you gave me the
owners name - however, I don't recall you ever providing such
information. I do recall asking THE TECH to message Longboarder who was
apparently present at the event, but he replied that he did not have any
specifics.
If you do have any information as to the owner of this vehicle, and
according to you, you've previously provided it to me, I would be
interested in that information.
-It's not possible for our software to lose power on the dyno as this
shows, and this, given the location at which this dyno was performed, is
cause for suspicion.
-Where are the dyno run files for this? Surely I would thing this is
something you would have.
-Looking at how the AFR consistently rises from 7,000 RPM to redline,
I'm confident that either this was not software obtained from BPM, or
that there was manipulation involved (such as not being all the way down
on the throttle). Our software is not calibrated to lean out as you
approach maximum RPM. |
| Dyno Database Response |
This was point-3 of a six point
message alleging factual errors to the Dyno Database administrator. The
Dyno Database will address each of these items separately.
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Disputed point #1 |
You specified
that you gave me the owners name - however, I don't recall you ever
providing such information. I do recall asking THE TECH to message
Longboarder who was apparently present at the event, but he replied that
he did not have any specifics. If you do have any information as
to the owner of this vehicle, and according to you, you've previously
provided it to me, I would be interested in that information. |
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Dyno Database Response |
Too long
has passed to know with any certainty whether or not I provided the car
owner name. I
believe I recommended THE TECH to contact Longboarder for the name of
the car owner. If Mr. Benveniste really wants the car owner's name, it doesn't
involve the Dyno Database anyways. The Dyno Database wasn't
involved in this dyno day, and the Dyno Database administrator wasn't present at the event.
Whereas Mr. Benveniste has repeatedly used the EAS facilities, he should
contact them regarding the name and contact information for the car
owner. The Dyno Database is not a social media network intended to
hook people up: Mr. Benveniste can use Facebook
for that. |
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Disputed point #2 |
It's
not possible for our software to lose power on the dyno as this shows,
and this, given the location at which this dyno was performed, is cause
for suspicion. |
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Dyno Database Response: |
This is
not an allegation of factual error, and doesn't involve the Dyno
Database; the Dyno Database administrator doesn't care. But it's worth a little
time to correct Mr. Benveniste misstated comments.
Of course it's possible to lose power on the
dyno with a software upgrade when the "tuner" doesn't know what they're
doing. In fact, Mr. Benveniste was involved in this exact
situation once before and was on the "giving" end of the power loss
claim. In this thread on m3post, Mr. Benveniste while working at
PowerChip alleged that Active Autowerke software lost power.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296406.
As further illustration in Dyno Database entry
ID00620,
the car only gained 5whp from Mr. Benveniste's BPM Stage-2 software tune over
a stock software tune. In that Dyno Database entry, Mr. Benveniste
corrected the record from BPM Stage-1 to BPM Stage-2. In the Dyno
Database experience, usually a stage-2 tune offers a few horsepower gain
over a stage-1 tune. Mr. Benveniste's stage-2 tune only offered
5whp over stock. Therefore it is entirely possible had this car in
ID00620
been outfitted with stage-1 software, it would have very
likely lost power and contradicted Mr. Benveniste's own claims. If
it only gained 5whp over stock tune with stage-2 software, the car very
likely would have lost power with his stage-1 software. |
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Disputed point #3 |
Where
are the dyno run files for this? Surely I would thing this is something
you would have. |
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Dyno Database Response |
It is
always the policy of the Dyno Database to post all dyno files when they
are available. If these files were submitted, then they would be
available. Since this doesn't involve the Dyno Database, nor even
allege a factual error, it's another waste of the Dyno Database
administrator's time. Mr. Benveniste
knows where the dyno was conducted and he should contact that business
and request copies of the files. He's used that shop before and
lives in their area. There's no reason for the Dyno Database to be
involved in this matter. |
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Disputed point #4 |
Looking at how the AFR consistently rises from 7,000 RPM to redline, I'm
confident that either this was not software obtained from BPM, or that
there was manipulation involved (such as not being all the way down on
the throttle). Our software is not calibrated to lean out as you
approach maximum RPM. |
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Dyno Database Response |
This is
another perplexing allegation from Mr. Benveniste to the Dyno Database.
Unless Mr. Benveniste is alleging the Dyno Database manipulated or
photoshopped the graph, there doesn't seem to be any legitimate reason
to bring this to attention or request an investigation. The Dyno
Database has seen previous dyno files that show very inconsistent AFR's.
They'll go in one direction on one run, and a completely different
direction on the next. When you look at them all together, they look
like a bunch of squiggly lines going in all different directions. None
of them were programmed to behave that way. The
allegation itself shows Mr. Benveniste is far less experienced as a
"tuner" and with the MSS60 (ECU) and S65 engine than he portrays if he
has not seen this before nor able to explain how it occurs.
Here's some other examples from the Dyno Database
to illustrate this phenomenon:
(Click to Enlarge)
(Click to Enlarge)
(Click to Enlarge)
These three sets of dyno graphs come from files
in the Dyno Database and show the exact phenomenon on another product
that Mr. Benveniste has claimed is impossible on his product. Each
of these results come from S65 engine with MSS60 ECU. The results
show multiple dyno tests, taken minutes apart, often times with less
than two minutes between runs. Mr. Benveniste seems to assume the
MSS60 will always behave exactly as the tuner intended. That
assumption seems to be the basis of his comments that his software can't
lean out above 7000 RPMs because it's not programmed to do so. But
these results also weren't programmed to lean after 7000 RPMs either,
yet they did it anyways. These results indicate to the Dyno
Database administrator that Mr. Benveniste isn't nearly as knowledgeable
of the MSS60 as he thinks he is.
Another thing to see from these results are the
completely undeterministic nature of the AFR graph lines themselves.
Below 7000 RPMs, these AFR results seem almost as if they were random.
If Mr. Benveniste were correct in his knowledge of the MSS60, then this
phenomenon wouldn't be possible either.
But once again, this is just a side-show and
grandstanding by Mr. Benveniste. There isn't even an allegation of
a factual error in the Dyno Database, so even as misinformed and
inexperienced as Mr. Benveniste appears to be, the topic is irrelevant
to the Dyno Database and just another waste of the Dyno Database
administrator's time. |
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Summary from the Dyno Database |
The Dyno
Database finds the following with respect to this Dyno Database entry:
- The dyno occurred during a public dyno
event in front of dozens of witnesses.
- The car owner discussed his car
modifications, and those are now part of the public record.
- The provenance of this Dyno Database entry
is above reproach and can't be disputed without evidence.
- Mr. Benveniste was made aware of these
findings in September 2013.
- Nine months later, Mr. Benveniste renewed
his claims in front of a forum administrator (an uninvolved third
party) for the purpose of having it removed from the public record.
- Mr. Benveniste mislead the forum
administrator and did not inform him of the prior complaint and the
prior resolution.
- Mr. Benveniste alleged to the forum
administrator that multiple factual error allegations had been
lodged previously, and that the Dyno Database administrator was unresponsive in
addressing them. Given the ample evidence to the contrary, AND
the fact that Mr. Benveniste never filed any other factual disputes
until a later time, his entire story of multiple requests being
ignored is a fabrication that only Mr. Benveniste can explain.
- Mr. Benveniste brought up numerous other
factually incorrect statements such as AFR anomalies and loss of
horsepower within this complaint. The Dyno Database doesn't
care about these matters or how well or how poorly his product
performs. The Dyno Database cannot investigate matters that
Mr. Benveniste doesn't understand and can't explain himself.
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